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Apple Cider Vinegar

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Apple Cider Vinegar

Post by Tigerlily on Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:22 pm

I just thought I'd post this link (which isn't a link, but will get you there through a browse)r:

http://www.bewellbuzz.com/wellness-buzz/apple-cider-vinegar-medicinal-benefits/

I get regular natural health emails from this source, and although I'm not recommending it at all, apple cider vinegar is mentioned in this article in connection with a lot of the ailments we seem to mention on this site - acid reflux, candida, kidney stones, etc.

My cholesterol has risen sharply again. It was 11.0 before surgery, dropped to 7.6 after surgery, which I was really pleased about, but has now risen back to 9.7. I chose not to take statins because of the possible mental-fog-side-effects. I felt I had enough mental fog going on already with pHPT. But as it mentions the possibility of it helping to lower cholesterol, I will probably give it a try. As unadulterated as possible from a trusted health food shop, will be my choice.

Just a thought, out of interest.

Love from Tigerlily xx

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Re: Apple Cider Vinegar

Post by Admin on Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:38 pm

Hi Tigerlily

Just a thought, but have you had your Thyroid hormones tested (specifically Free T3)?
Brain fog is one of many hypothyroid symptoms, as is high cholestorol.
Low T3 will cause all sorts of other problems, but the link with high cholestorol is well known (except GPs and Endos who don't read medical papers).

Edwin
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Re: Apple Cider Vinegar

Post by Tigerlily on Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:22 pm

Hi Edwin - hope you're having a good day.

I've just got some results back and they are all something of a mess. As you know I only take T3 (20 mcg once daily) and after surgery my cholesterol dropped from 11 to 7 (in round numbers). As my cholesterol had never been measured lower than 6 anyway, I was really pleased about that.

Now some recent results have come back as Total Cholesterol 9.7 (they didn't bother with HDL, LDL and Tri's as this lab seems to be a law unto itself when it comes to what they test on a GP's say-so). TSH was flagged up as abnormal at 4.72 (whereas it was below 3 straight after surgery) with FT3 of 9.9 and FT4 of 4.9. I checked with the lab to see if they had got those two round the right way, and they say they have!

I think I have a problem converting T4 to T3. I was last told by the endo (the one who didn't diagnose pHPT for nearly 2 years ...) that I should take another 20mcg of T3 at lunchtime after the first one in the morning, but that doesn't seem right to me. I find I'm going like a train in the afternoon when I do take another 20 mcg, and then I can't sleep at night either.

I did well on Armour Thyroid for a few months, then the GP said they couldn't prescribe it any more, for all the usual reasons (unlicensed, unreliable, etc etc). I've asked now for it to be prescribed on a named-patient basis and am waiting to hear if they will do this or not. I didn't do well with thyroxine. Apparently some people don't.

What is odd is that although my readings above are all to pot, I don't actually feel bad at the moment, and I've had some good nights of sleep recently.

I'd be glad to hear your comments.

Tigerlily x

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Re: Apple Cider Vinegar

Post by Hadleigh on Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:00 pm

Tigerlily my thyroid results are all wrong since surgery, TSH higher, T4 lower and T3 below the range, despite me raising my T4 dose they got worse scratch

I have no doubt it was the surgery that messed them all up and now I'm having trouble getting them back to where they should be Neutral

Nelly
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Re: Apple Cider Vinegar

Post by Admin on Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:13 pm

Hi Tiger lily

Interesting results.
I wish that I had an FT3 of 4.9. I struggle to get above 4.2.

Although your FT4 is low, as you are not taking Levothyroxine, this is hardly surprising.

High TSH on T3 only is likely to be a reflection of the low FT4, but could also indicate a Pituitary or Hypothalamus problem.

The jump from 20mcg T3 to 40mcg is considerable. Better to increment in 5mcg steps.

Do you not take your T3 before blood tests?
If not, you may get an artificially high FT3 level.

Edwin


Last edited by Admin on Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Apple Cider Vinegar

Post by Tigerlily on Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:08 pm

Hi Nelly and Edwin

Yes, Nelly, thyroid things are looking a bit odd for me since the surgery:

TSH (Range 0.2 - 4.2) was 1.42 post surgery, then 4.96, then this week 4.72.
FT3 (Range 3.95-6.Cool was  4.50                            6.70,                        9.90.
FT4 (Range 12 - 22)   was  6.60                            3.60,                        4.72.

Edwin - I did take my T3 before the last blood tests this week in error. I don't usually do that.

I'm still on just 20 mcg of T3 and don't really want to increase it, as I won't sleep.

I agree about the high TSH on T3 only and the low T4, but thanks for the heads-up that it might be a pit or hypothalamus problem. I've had these two at the back of my mind for some time now. A pit MRI (unenhanced) revealed nothing untoward, but my pit hormones are all low, which I too thought might indicate a problem with hypothalamus.

A pituitary problem (say, a non-functional adenoma, for instance) would tie in with the 3 hyperplastic PTH glands to indicate MEN1. I'm seeing the endo geneticist at Addenbrookes on 26 March, so hopefully might get a clearer picture after seeing her.

Another thought: Edwin - do you think the surgery could have improved my FT4:FT3 conversion somehow? And perhaps I don't need to supplement with T3 any longer? That had occurred to me before surgery. Perhaps I might be able to get my GP to agree to monitor me for a trial period without any thyroid hormones to see what results.

Do you think that might be worth a try, looking at these results?

Tigerlily x

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Re: Apple Cider Vinegar

Post by Admin on Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:47 pm

Hi Tigerlily

Conversion is only relevant if your thyroid is working and putting-out T4, or if you are taking Levothyroxine (T4).
The T4 is distributed through the blood to all parts of the body where it gets (or should get) converted to T3 only.

Taking T3 is the way to bypass the conversion process for people who either do not convert, or unable to convert adequately.

The most important thing to remember is that how you feel is more important than blood results.
If you still have hypothyroid symptoms, then stopping or reducing your T3 is not going to help.

I am not aware of any cases where thyroid function can be improved. As far as I know, it is a one-way street.

It is reasonable to fine-tune your T3. You should do this anyway, as the demands on your metabolism change. For example, slightly increasing your dose when the weather is cold, or when you increase physical activity (I need an additional 5mcg after cardiac rehab sessions, otherwise I am wiped-out the following day). A slight reduction when the weather is warmer is also reasonable.

I would not advocate any significant change in either direction. 5mcg increments are reasonable, but give each change some time to take effect before any further change.

T3 is a powerful hormone, many times more powerful than T4, and should be used with caution.
Too much and too little can both lead to problems.

Edwin


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Re: Apple Cider Vinegar

Post by Admin on Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:03 pm

A couple of further thoughts ....

I think that TSH is largely irrelevant in your case, as you are on T3 only.

You will probably feel better with a 5mcg or 10mcg increase as this gets you closer to the equivalent of a fully functioning thyroid daily output (around 100mcg).

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Re: Apple Cider Vinegar

Post by Tigerlily on Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:39 pm

That's really great advice, Edwin. I do so appreciate it. Wish you were my endo!

I think I'll increase by half a 20mcg tablet, or perhaps by halving that half if it's possible. There are no 10mcg tablets of T3 to be had apparently, so trying to get 5mcg from a 20 mcg tablet isn't easy - even with my efficient tablet cutter.

I'm particularly taken by what you say about TSH not being so relevant. That's something less to worry about.

Thanks again, Edwin - your advice and experience is much appreciated.

Hope things continue to improve for you.

Tigerlily x

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Re: Apple Cider Vinegar

Post by Admin on Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:17 am

5mcg Liothyronine tablets are available on prescription, provided that your Doc is co-operative.  They are not licensed in the UK, but I have no problem getting them on a standard GP prescription.

Your Doc needs to specify 5mcg tablets in a 100mcg bottle manufactured by Perigo (recently changed from Paddock Labs).  They are an American import, but Boots do not have any problem with delivery - just takes an extra day or two

A word of warning though, they are much more expensive (hence your Doc's co-operation) than the 20mcg tablets from Amdipharm Mercury Company Limited ('AMCo') - also known as Mercury Pharma, which are the only UK licensed Liothyronine.

Do not think about mixing brands (20mcg Mercury + 10mcg Perigo).  the advice with thyroid meds is to stick with one brand if you are happy with it. 

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Re: Apple Cider Vinegar

Post by Tigerlily on Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:02 am

Thanks again, Edwin - really useful information, as always.

I didn't know any of this - just that 10mcg were "not available", let alone 5mcg!

Tigerlily x

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Re: Apple Cider Vinegar

Post by Admin on Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:03 pm

Perigo/Paddock actually manufacture 5mcg, 10mcg and 25mcg tablets, but only the 5mcg are available in the UK.

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Re: Apple Cider Vinegar

Post by Tigerlily on Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:45 pm

Thanks, Edwin - I have a good tablet splitter, but of course it's not as precise as a 5mcg tablet.

Have a good weekend - with the lovely new guinea pig!

Tigerlily x

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